This is what makes me laugh about the Anti Flouride People

So the rhetoric from the anti-flouride people is that all the dentists in the US and our health officials have something to gain by towing the “Flouride is good” line.

They won’t listen to a dentist with over 30 years of experience who says publicly that he has seen first hand that communities with Flouride in their water makes a difference.

They won’t listen to all the national studies, the Center For Disease Control, American Dental Association, and when our own local Chairman of the Board of Health Rich Sagall comes out and says that the benefits of Flouride are clear and there are a ton of studies that support this it falls on deaf ears.  But still the Anti-flouride crusaders beat the drum that ALLLLLL these people who are paid to look out for us: our dentists, our Health departments, the National Center for Disease Control are in cahoots to hoodwink us and mess us up because everyone is getting paid off to keep up the lie about Flouride.

So the theory by the anti flouride folks is that all the pro-flouride people can’t be trusted because they are being paid off and that is the reason why we should throw everything they have to say that is positive about using flouride out the window and yet the person they want us to listen to is getting paid and is going around the country getting paid to give the anti flouride speech (so he has nothing to gain right by towing his stance, right?).  Not only that, he has a book out that I’m sure he’d love to sell you for the low low price of $18.36 on Amazon with the Title “The Case Against Flouride”-  Nothing to gain financially at all.  So a guy pimping a book we should listen to but everybody disregard your dentist and your health departments, local and national.  Clear the decks because none of those people can be trusted, we gotta put all our stock into a guy that’s pimping a book-

Here’s the cover of the book, and whattaya know it’s the same image they are using for their press release-

image001 (12)

SPONSORED BY…

Here’s the press release-

Do you have questions about fluoride in our drinking water?  You have 2 opportunities this weekend to learn more. Sponsored by The Cape Ann Fluoride Action Network, Dr. Paul Connett, Author of The Case Against Fluoride (and most recently, The Zero Waste Solution) will be giving a lecture on Saturday, August 2nd at the Rockport High School Auditorium at 7 PM. Also on Sunday, August 3rd, same time and place, Dr. Connett will hold an open forum discussion.

All are cordially invited for both evenings.

Rockport High School is located at 24 Jerdens Lane with plenty of parking.

The Case Against Fluoride

 

Now the key I see here is the Sponsored by  part of the press release.

The whole anti Flouride case is based on that we shouldn’t listen to our own local and national health officials or our own dentists because somehow or other they have something to gain financially by promoting the use of flouride.  But the same people who say that we shouldn’t listen to people that have something to gain financially say we SHOULD listen to some dude that is going around the country on a lecture circuit pimping his book on an anti flouride campaign that is being sponsored.  I do believe sponsored by means getting paid or hosted by them to speak.

It baffles me why they all push aside anything trusted local dentists or our own health officials have to say but they are more than willing to give all the credence to some guy going around riding a crest of fame on a new fad of anti-flouride and pimping a book on a lecture circuit.

Here’s some local and national folks that the anti-flouride folks don’t seem to want to listen to:

Leif Bakland
HarborCoveDental.com-

Submitted on 2014/07/21 at 10:43 pm
Hi Joey, evidently, fluoride is a hot topic. I will say that I am definitely for fluoridated water supply. It’s safe and effective. I’ve been in practice for over 30 years and have treated families from fluoridated and non fluoridated communities, there Is a difference!

image

July 23, 2014

City health chiefs back continuing fluoride use

By James Niedzinski Staff Writer

Dr. Richard Sagall, who chairs the city’s Board of Health and Noreen Burke, Gloucester’s public health director say the benefits of fluoride are clear.

Burke said records show that Gloucester began adding fluoride to the water in 1981. She said the city also created an ad hoc committee with the Board of Health, a dentist and others last month.

“We support fluoridation of the water,” Sagall said.

He said fluoride indeed makes a difference in fighting tooth decay, but added that “there are many other things to support fluoride use.”

Sagall and Burke noted the amount of fluoride currently added to Gloucester’s water is low — about 0.3 or 0.4 parts per million compared to the federal and state recommended level of about 1.0 parts per million.

The push to get fluoride out of water is not local, Burke noted. “This is a national movement,” she said.

Sagall said that the use of anything in excess can cause problems, but the state Department of Public Health, the federal Environmental Protection Agency and the Centers for Disease Control all recommend fluoride use in drinking water.

Sagall recognized the sheer amount of data on the issue, from seemingly endless amounts of government agencies, experts, institutions and dentists.

“You have to look at the preponderance of evidence,” he said.

I’m sure this guy is gonna give a hell of a speech and leave everyone in the room convinced that they’re gonna die within minutes if they ever brush their teeth using local flouride water.  He will say that flouride is poison and scare the shit out of everyone.

Guess what else is poison?  Just about everything if you take a bajillion parts per million of it.  The amount of parts per million of flouride they are putting in our water is miniscule but the way it will be presented I’m sure will be that death is knocking on our doorstep with the very next sip we take.

I trust Rich Sagall and our Board of Health, I trust my dentist more than I trust some guy who is on a lecture circuit pushing a book.  That’s what I’m going with.

50 comments

  • You need to educate your self on the topic.

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  • I personally don’t drink my water because it has fluoride in it. I believe there are benefits to fluoride in the water, but for a certain age group. Kids can benefit for sure. I have a thyroid condition and an autoimmune disease and fluoride has been proven hazardous. I only drink spring water to stop any further damage to my thyroid.
    Fluoride has been proven to be beneficial to teeth (in young people), but dentists don’t study other diseases that it might be working against.
    Just my 2 cents.
    LeHood

    Liked by 1 person

  • Gen. Jack D. Ripper: I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

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    • Played by former Gloucester resident Sterling Hayden…what a great movie!

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      • If you hang out with Toby Pett you absolutely learn something new every day. Sterling Hayden from Gloucester?! General Ripper in Dr Strangelove, and the crooked cop in the Godfather I believe he gets a bullet in the forehead.

        As for the fluoride conspiracy run by the commies that infiltrated all the government agencies it seems like the original conspiracy of the 50s has circled around for a new look because it’s the Chinese selling us the toxic fluoride waste.

        The goofy conspiracy that will not die right up there with chemtrails and anti-vaccine for death defying nuttiness.

        Just one note to the conspiracy believers. Look around when you are reading all about nasty fluoride. Are you on a real website like the CDC or on NaturalNews, Mercola, Dr Oz? Look around and see what other conspiracies go hand in hand with fluoride. Mike Adams the Health Ranger from Natural News the biggest anti-fluoride person out there. He is being questioned by the FBI this week because he calls for the killing of Monsanto scientists. Be wary of the company you keep when you believe in this stuff.

        And Michael Foley owes James Dowd a sculpture!

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_Hayden

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  • General Ripper, Captain of a schooner out of Gloucester, Dr. Strangelove and fluoridation. It all comes full circle.
    Mandrake!! (I think I might have to watch this whole movie tonight on iTunes.)

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  • You really should have delved deeper into this. Dr. Paul Connett is not just some dude pimping a book out. He is a biochemist who travels worldwide, not nationwide, to speak out against Fluoride with new scientific evidence. Nothing about this has to do with conspiracy theory, simply new research many people have yet to hear. It dissapoints me how closeminded people can be to new research, even when it is so readily available. If you want to get right down to it, Fluoride is a neurotoxin which bioaccumulates in various parts of your body. It can cause hypothyroidism and it calcifies your pineal gland, also known as your third eye. Too much Fluoride can cause Dental Fuorosis, which destroys the enamel of your teeth. It leeches calcium from your bones over time and deposites it in areas of your body that it does not belong in. Another large problem is that under the assumption water Fluoridation is beneficial, how can mass medicating with a prescription drug (Fluoride) be at all effective through a system used for many activities besides consumption? Are my tomatoes at risk of cavities? How about my car when I wash it? My skin when I shower? The truth is, only 0.1% of the Fluoride added to the water ever reaches your teeth. That means the other 99.9% either ends up back in the water cycle or in the ocean. Last I checked, lobsters do not suffer from poor dental health. Maybe you should look a little deeper into some more recent studies and actually bother to find out the true details of local events before attempting to discourage grass roots movements that grow from an unyeilding sense of caring for every single member of this community.

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  • I would like to clarify a few facts about this post. First of all Dr. Connett is doing these two evening presentations pro-bono. No charge. Dr. Connett is not selling his books at the presentations. We are selling them and we are keeping the profits as donations to our grassroots organization. We are only offering 25 copies for sale.

    Dr. Connett originally became interested in this subject when the issue of fluoride came up in his own town of Canton, NY. His wife asked him for his opinion on some studies she had to review for a Board of Health meeting. He read the science and thought, this is a no-brainer, take the fluoride out of the water. As a chemist he knew the toxicity of fluoride and how it would affect the human body.

    He received his undergraduate degree from Cambridge University, U.K. and his PhD in Chemistry from Dartmouth College, U.S. His expertise is in toxicolgy and bio-chemistry. In my opinion he is far more qualified to tell us how fluoride affects our entire body, not just our teeth. Would you go to your dentist to find out about how Coumadin affects your body, would you ask your dentist the effects of Synthroid on your body or would a toxicologist be a better person to give you the chemistry of chemicals such as halogens like fluoride?

    None of the comments that I saw from writers opposing adding Sodium Fluoride, an industrial waste product from the aluminum industry in China, talked about conspiracies and pimping for money.

    Who is pimping for money? The American Dental Association received $28 million dollars from fluoride interests like Colgate, Proctor & Gamble, and Smith-Kline. Who is pimping?

    The National Institute for Dental Research, under the National Institue for Health, did the largest, most comprehensive study on the relationship between water fluoridation and tooth decay. They spent over 3.6 million dollars on this scientific study which found absolutely no correlation between fluoridation and tooth decay. Why didn’t any of the pro-fluoride people bring up this study?

    The World Health Organization finds no correlation between fluoridation and tooth decay. 97% of Western Europe doesn’t fluridate their water and have the same levels of tooth decay as we do.

    Dentists say that they have seen the decline in tooth decay since fluoridation started. We have never argued the efficacy of fluoride applied topically to the tooth surface. In 1955 Crest toothpaste added fluoride to their toothpaste and it soon became the number one toothpaste in America. Colgate added fluoride in 1974. Antibiotics kill bacteria which causes tooth decay, introduced at about the same time. Elementary schools around the world started teaching dental hygiene in the 1940’s. These educational, health, and lifestyle changes would certainly explain why tooth decay declined all over the world, not just in fluoridated areas.

    I think it’s time for you and your dentist to come and challenge Dr. Connett at the open forum discussion on Sunday evening. If you are right and have the science, not the conspiracy theories, behind your argument then you will have proved your point.

    Wouldn’t everyone here like to see Joey at the Sunday evening event in Rockport High School at 7 pm! Please bring Dr. Bakland with you and let him give us his years of expertise. Unless, of course, you’re afraid that you have nothing to back up your words. I challenge all the professionals who advocate for water fluoridation to show up on Sunday evening and give their side of this issue.

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  • But Lorna and friends, what are you anti-fluoride people doing about the fact that fluoride occurs naturally in spring water and any other natural fresh water source already? If you’re going to be true to your principles you’d better find a way to get it out. And don’t expect to avoid it by drinking bottled water. Look at the label: if it says “purified water,” of “municipal water supply,” it’s nothing but tap water, fluoride and all, anyway. Next time you pick up a bottle of Dasani (made by Coca-Cola) or Aquafina (Pepsi), read the label. Surprise! You’re paying for something you could already be getting for free!

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    • Tom, The fluoride found naturally in water is calcium fluoride, very different from the Sodium Fluoride, an industrial waste product of the aluminum industry, added to our drinking water. In China, india, and Africa they are working to remove naturally occurring calcium cluoride from areas of condentration because it is causing brittle bone disease, increasing the density of the bones, yet making them weaker. Skeletal fluorosis is found with Sodium fluoride, too. Sodium Fluoride as a halogen with a low atomic weight is very destructive to our body. The Lancet Neurology published a per reviewed study from Harvard School of Public Health identifying Fluoride as a developmental neurotoxin, causing cognitive disorders and lowered Iq in children in fluoridated areas. THere are bottled waters avaiable without fluoride, but you must check them, preferable on line before shopping. Just google fluoride free bottled water. But, why should we have to? Why are we being medicated without
      our consent? Unethical and unconstitutional.

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  • Thanks for the common sense, Joey. It’s astonishing that a few loud folks can force an intelligent community like Gloucester to refight the battles of 50-60 years ago. I’m a senior who’s grateful to have grown up in communities with fluoridated water and treated by dentists who applied it directly to my teeth.

    Dr. Connett is a chemist, not a health professional. I know whom I’ll trust.

    Let those who oppose it pay for and drink bottled water to their hearts’ content. They shouldn’t withhold proven protection from Gloucester’s rising generation.

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  • I think the obsession with getting fluoride out of the water might have to do with a tinfoil hat’s inability to filter it out.

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  • About 6 months ago, a good friend announced that drinking water fluoridation had some health and effectiveness issues…At best, I was doubtful, but curious. After all, like everyone else, I’d been told often that adding fluoride to drinking water was good for my teeth….I was 3 years old when fluoride came to my town. Thinking back on it, I had a lot of cavities until I hit my late teens, but maybe, I thought, fluoride must take a long time to kick in. I do remember “them” saying that just the right amount of fluoride had to be added to the water, because if too much was added, your teeth would turn brown. I didn’t know then that this was called fluorosis. I didn’t learn until recently that the Centers for Disease Control had announced in 2010 that, for adolescents 12-14 years old, the then current rate of fluorosis was 41%, which is considered to be a pandemic. But then I learned that the American Dental Association had begun calling fluorosis a “cosmetic” problem. Perhaps that’s all it is.

    But surely, I reasoned, this is just the price we pay for otherwise great dental health. I read one after the other endorsement and anecdote from “officials” about the proven effectiveness of drinking water fluoridation in reducing cavities. I heard how “numerous” studies had proven this and that The Centers for Disease Control (again) had proclaimed “Community water fluoridation one of 10 great public health achievements of the 20th century”. (If you ask your dentist, you will find he or she has memorized this sentence.) The CDC contradiction confused me, so I dug a bit deeper. In so doing, I came across this data ( http://cancercompass.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/decay2.gif ) gathered by the World Health Organization, which clearly indicates all industrialized countries have experienced a great improvement in dental health over the last 50 years…..Even the countries which do not fluoridate their water (most of them). The strong, but almost blasphemous conclusion is that fluoridated water doesn’t reduce cavities at all. And now we are learning that communities which stop fluoridating do not experience a greater incidence of cavities than those which continue or those which never have. Interesting.

    The Cape Ann Fluoridation Action Network has done much more digging than I have, and have found studies which link fluoride to a number of diseases in addition to fluorosis. They have also called an expert on the subject of water fluoridation to speak at Rockport High School this weekend. Dr. Paul Connett will speak on Saturday August 2 and Sunday August 3 at 7pm. Saturday will be a lecture format, while the Sunday session will encourage audience statements and questions for Dr. Connett. The public is welcome to both sessions, and admission is free.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this ~ Michael Foley

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  • http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

    Harvard University study on fluoridation and its toxic effects.

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  • FYI: First paragraph of Harvard Study publication–
    July 25, 2012 — For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Have you read the statement by the study’s authors?

      Among other things they say “Fluoride released into the ground water in China in some cases greatly
      exceeded levels that are typical in the U.S.” and ===> “These results do not allow us to make any judgment regarding possible levels of risk at levels of exposure typical for water fluoridation in the U.S.”

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      • If your child was at risk for cognitive loss due to someone not being sure how much fluoride it would take, and heaven forbid we have an accident like the one in Alaska, wouldn’t you think that it’s not worth the risk. Why not have it free in bottled water so people get the correct dose for those who want to continue taking it? I don’t want to risk anyone’s child’s cognitive function to lower cavity rates.

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  • When there is no universally accepted truth about something, it should not be universally applied.
    Fluoride should not be added to the public water supply.
    For everyone who wants to ingest fluoride it is easily and inexpensively available – go for it.
    However it is extremely difficult and expensive to remove.
    Studies show no correlation between ingesting fluoride in water to improved dental health. Some improvements are shown with the topical application – your toothpaste, etc. Many studies show problems in other parts of the body from ingesting fluoride. So keep your toothpaste, rinses – whatever you want – but let’s all stop drinking it.
    Nestle CEO Peter Brabeck says that “water is not a human right”. I believe with all my heart that access to clean water is most definitely a human right that should be defended at all costs. One part of that defense concerns what is added to that water.

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  • I know that a member of Cape Ann Fluoride Action Network has challenged you and Dr. Bakland, as well as all dentists on Cape Ann, to attend the Sunday evening, August 3rd, Open Forum Discussion at the Rockport High School at 7pm. This is a golden opportunity for you to respond to the anti-fluoridationists. Will you and Dr. Bakland attend? Or is it all just empty words? Are you up for the challenge?

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    • No I won’t be attending. I trust our local health officials will be there. If they come out and say it’s bad juju and if local dentists that I trust say it’s bad juju then I’ll adjust my stance. Til then I’m going with the people I trust over someone who is selling a book.

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      • I don’t think the local health officials should bother attending either. I did not think Bill Nye the science guy should have debated or interacted with Ken Ham the Creationist. It really boils down to science verses pseudo-science no matter how sciencey the anti-fluoride side makes the data sound.

        As you stated originally, all science organizations of any merit believe by overwhelming consensus that fluoride should be in a municipal water system. To actual scientists, this is not a controversy. There is no controversy about vaccines or global warming. It’s called overwhelming evidence. Debating a Paul Connett would elevate Connett’s pseudo-science.

        To actually believe that fluoride is a toxic chemical foisted upon an unwary public for the past 60 years by government agencies and scientists one would have to believe in a government conspiracy. All anti-flouride websites hide behind rational science sounding stuff but when you dig just a tiny bit, they believe in government conspiracy. Rational people should not be swept into that or you will end up believing in chemtrails.

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        • How sciency? The NIDR, the National Institue for Dental Research, under the NIH, National Institue for Health, would disagree with you. THe WHO, World Health Organization, would also disagree. Both finding no correlation between water fluoridation adn tooth decay. It’s not even a question. The statistics for decayed, missing, and filled teeth are the evidence that water fluoridation makes no difference in levels of tooth decay.
          Consensus “science: is lazy science. Galileo and Semmelwiess fought against “consensus science” and won with real science. Not with 50-60 year old studies. We now have long term studies that show the hazards of this inorganic halogen, not mineral, added to our water supply, industrial waste from the aluminum industry. Fluoride, by the way, crosses the blood brain barrier and has a chemicl affinity with aluminum. Raise any concerns there?

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  • To the people who continue to write asking me to attend the anti-flouride book event and are getting upset if their comments aren’t approved within minutes of them submitting them I’ll just copy and paste this email I just sent to the latest conspiracy theorist-

    Karen, I just updated the que of comments of which yours was pending along with a bunch of others on all the other daily posts. It’s live now.

    There is no conspiracy theory to not publish your comment. I post everyone’s unless they are rude.

    I’m not wasting my time at that meeting as I’m confident that my dentist and the cdc and Gloucester Board of Health have my back. It’s what they get paid to do and I trust them more than I trust a guy selling a book. I can make things sound horrible by using words and scaring the shit out of people.

    For example:

    Did you know that car exhaust is deadly? Just xyz parts per million can kill you. You really shouldn’t go anywhere near an automobile that might emit exhaust because you can die and we should put it on the ballot to take all cars of the road because exhaust can kill you.

    Liked by 1 person

  • In May, a meeting was held at the Board of Health in Gloucester, in which the topic of Drinking water fluoridation was on the agenda. Four dentists from the area spoke their minds, and all agreed that over the years they had seen great improvements in oral health in their practices. This is a universally accepted truth for industrialized countries. None of the dentists, however, were able to produce scientific studies supporting water fluoridation as the root cause. Cape Ann Fluoridation speakers produced a number of studies from the World Health Organization, Harvard, the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institute of Dental Research which indicate no correlation between water fluoridation and improved dental health.
    In the first couple of months of doing my own research, I struggled to find studies which support water fluoridation and found few, the exceptions being a few pre-1950 studies which would never pass peer reviews in our current world. At the same time, studies which raised my eyebrows are quite easy to find. For this reason, doctors and dentists who support fluoridation have become hesitant to debate Dr. Connett, whose arguments are science based. Personally, I look at his Sunday session as an opportunity to hear more from fluoride supporters, and to learn about the scientific basis of their beliefs. I do hope that some local dental and medical professionals will take this opportunity to present a balanced picture to help Cape Ann residents make up their own minds about fluoride. Anecdotes and endorsements are all very well and good for entertainment venues, but not for public health issues.

    Liked by 1 person

  • Oh….And thanks, Joey, for allowing local web exposure for this topic! ~M

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  • Dr. Connett is an academic who has been doing research on this issue for over 18 years – of COURSE he publishes!! And let’s be clear – he is NOT coming to sell his book. The Cape Ann Fluoride Action Network as purchased some of his books and we will be selling them will ALL of the profits going to the group.

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  • One of the issues which gets little attention, even among anti-fluoriders, is the increase in fluoride from sources other than drinking water. Phosphate fertilizer residues on fruits and vegetables, antibiotics for human consumption and in meat, a variety of prescription drugs and a spectrum of industrial chemicals for many uses all contain fluoride. Virtually none of these existed when water fluoridation practices were begun, but taken together they pose a real health risk. There is no debate about the dangers of fluoride in higher doses, and with all of these sources now part of our environment, it is not surprising that fluorosis has reached pandemic proportions in the United States. And the only one of these sources over which cities and town have control is drinking water. This is a pretty good article about the inundation of fluoride chemicals which we now face: http://www.rense.com/general12/fl.htm.

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    • Good Lord Michael do you actually read anything else at websites you link to? I feel like I am having toxic shock just visiting the home page.

      Rense.com From David Duke bullshit to alien spaceships all selling you a colon cleanser.

      And you really need to stop using words that actually mean something in science. Pandemic is something to avoid. AIDs is currently a pandemic. fluorosis has not reached pandemic proportions anywhere in the world, certainly not in the United States.

      The article you have linked treats the the fluorine chemical element as a toxin. So is sodium, chlorine, shoot tons of elements on the periodic table will kill you. You also cannot live without them. And when actually mixed together in other things they are not the same thing anymore so you can’t just add them up and say “oh these are bad things”. The author needs a chemistry lesson or lay off that sodium and nasty chlorine but unfortunately be dead about twenty minutes later.

      Don’t you owe James Dowd a rock because you actually believe this bullshit served up from these websites? He easily met your ultimatum requirements. You need to hand it over without quoting naturalnews.com in your review negating his paper. That bullshit ain’t cutting it.

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  • Any and all who can bring a viewpoint supportive of Cape Ann drinking water fluoridation are most welcome to attend Dr. Connett’s Sunday session. But a scientist of your obvious stature, Dr. Morrison, would be more than welcome. Your well considered and scientifically supported pronouncements and responses, will no doubt be very well received, as will your feisty, refreshing and amusing delivery. Hope to see you there, my friend, and please consider making a small donation to Cape Ann Fluoride Action Network, or perhaps purchase a copy of “The Case Against Fluoride”…You’ll be glad you did. Thank you in advance!

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    • I will take a pass.
      I would rather go to a coal supporter rally and listen to global warming denialist because they actually have some meager facts behind their theory. (They are wrong but one study out of a thousand backs them up. Hey you know since the CO2 was higher in the Ordovician don’t you know.)
      I would rather go to a Jenny McCarthy rally against vaccines because at least she did a playboy spread and that should not be the reason why she is a fool but her education by Googling should be ridiculed without even mentioning plastic surgery.
      I would rather go to a chemtrail rally because, well, crazy people all together are fun especially when they are outside spraying vinegar in the air with tinfoil wrapped about their head because tinfoil is hard to find these days.
      But I will skip Connett’s talk at Rockport High School because sometimes there are not two sides to a controversy. If the other side of the controversy is supplied by your links, thanks, I will take a pass.
      Tell you what. Refute any part of James Dowd’s five year double blind study on fluoride that you requested and he delivered and I’ll go and sit in the front row.

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  • I have with an open mind read comments by pro-choice and anti-choice posted to this community blog. One of the great things about our country is we have the right to choice. For those who want to consume fluoride, you have the right. For those who do not want to consume fluoride, you have the right. This is not about selling books as the publisher of this “unbias” community social media site so states, it is about the citizens of Cape Ann having a voice to consume sodium fluoride. For pro-choice citizens who entrust the wellbeing of their health to local “dental” professionals, you are free to make office visits for your daily dose. For anti-choice citizens, you have a right not to have it in your town/city water supply.
    This is an important issue for the community not only for us but for future generations. It serves no interest to debate with sword, however, it does with fact. It is clear that evidence supports mature and open minded discussion between opinions.
    I encourage the engagement of intelligent and informed debate. The community must join together, let this weekend be the starting point for gathering and sharing “facts.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • Uh, last I checked the whole point of a blog is to be “bias”ed and have an opinion.
      That doesn’t mean I’ve disallowed opposing points of view in this comment section of being approved. All of the anti Fluoride comments have been posted.

      We simply disagree on who we trust on the issue and like I’ve stated numerous times, if the people entrusted to look after my health, my dentist, our local Board of Health and the CDC said it was bad I’d reexamine my view. For now that’s who I’m going with.

      I’m certain that if someone with an agenda that knows just enough of the words to throw around can scare the shit out of you. That is why I feel strongly that the people that should make these decisions are not laypeople like me who don’t know about it and listen to one lecture by a guy selling a book but rather the people entrusted to look after our health and have a better understanding of real science and pseudo science.
      If the Board of Health feels like this guy is credible and comes out with a statement backing him up that would be one thing but Rich Segall the chairman of our Board of Health already said the evidence is overwhelming that it is safe.

      I’ll freely admit I don’t know enough to discern if Flouride in the amount that we get in our water supply is safe and beneficial on my own but that is why I’d rather listen to those who I trust on the subject on the matter who say it is.
      That is why I’d prefer our Board of Health to make decisions related to our health over Nancy the Bus Driver that went to a lecture by a guy selling a book or Jimmy the welder or Joey the Lobster dealer that went to a meeting by a guy selling a book who scared the shit out of them with pseudo science.

      This is how my health information trust equation looks-

      RICH SEGALL, CHAIRMAN GLOUCESTER BOARD OF HEALTH > THE GUY SELLING A BOOK ABOUT HOW BAD FLOURIDE IS

      Here’s another one-

      THE CENTER FOR DISEASE CONTROL > THE GUY SELLING A BOOK ABOUT HOW BAD FLOURIDE IS

      Liked by 1 person

  • People: The guy who runs the show here is publishing both sides. He also has an opinion about the topic, as most of us do. Give him a break….He’s providing a public service. And if he’s at all like I was with Cape Ann Online, then he wonders sometimes if it’s worth it at all.

    And something I’ve noticed over the years is that when you tell a person their opinion is wrong, they dig their heels in harder, then what could be a real discussion turns in to a personal pissing match. Please don’t let it happen here or elsewhere. There are two sides to the fluoride debate: trust of authority and questioning of authority. There is nothing morally wrong with either, and both have been in play since 1945. Shalom.

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  • Thank you for your response. We should all continue to gather facts from both published and non-published authorities so that we have an informed opinion of fact on this important community/national issue brought before us. A fact to note, prior to social media and the internet, the print publishing industry was the leading source of information/education, an industry with declining revenue. Our country is a leader in funded published research. We have all been educated by published authors, hence school books. A book, blog or google search allows us all to be informed, all formats deserving of respect. The focus of the educational forum is about knowledge.

    Respectfully, I hope in your quest to educate yourself, you join me in attending the educational forum, from this point engaging in informed debate.

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  • I would think curiosity alone would entice pro-fluoride people to come to hear Dr. Connett speak. I don’t understand the refusal to even hear another side to this issue.
    When I was a little kid and the fluoride issue was first being discussed nation wide I asked my mother why anyone would be against adding fluoride to our drinking water if it helps to fight cavities. She said that some people feel that it is wrong for the government to mass medicate the citizens.
    This is not an issue of science to many people. t is an issue of an individuals right to consent to treatment. Water fluoridation cannot be dosed, there are too many variables, like how much do you, compared to your neighbor, drink in one day. It is not cost effective, most of it goes down the drain. Having fluoride available free to those who want it in bottled water with a 1 mg dose per bottle makes so much more sense.
    We can all argue science til the cows come home. Let’s do allow people to make their own choices.

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  • Geez – This is a “he said, she said” argument about who has the better science on whether or not water fluoridation is an absolute good or an absolute evil. Lord protect me from those with the one right answer.

    Folks – there is new information on the fluoride front since 1960. Just because we made the decision 50 years ago doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pay attention, now. Asbestos in school buildings and children’s pajamas was thought to be a good idea in the 50s, 60s and 70s – hey, it occurs naturally. My doctor tried to force me on Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) even though I wasn’t having any uncomfortable symptoms. The medical case was HRT mimicked something natural that the medical establishment thought would protect women from heart disease and osteoporosis. Niacin until the past couple of months was being recommended for folks with high cholesterol. All three, over decades of use, were finally proved to be bad ideas, requiring govt agencies and doctors to back-pedal.

    But even beyond the new data based on 40+ years of water fluoridation which is giving folks reasons for concerns about the general efficacy of fluoride and its unintended negative consequences, pay attention to the folks who are hypersensitive! People with allergies, kidney issues, liver problems, bladder problems, diabetes, etc. are finding that the water makes them feel ill! Or at least some do, others are just resigned to feeling that way, blaming their disease, not realizing that the water is aggravating their problems.

    The CDC and EPA have both come out and said that the perceived dental benefit of fluoride is topical – brushing your teeth with fluoridated toothpaste is sufficient. They’ve also cautioned that some populations, including infants, children, and folks with health problems are at risk of absorbing unsafe amounts. The World Health Organization (WHO) has documented that the improvement in dental health in Western Industrial nations is IDENTICAL for countries with and without water fluoridation programs. So why add it to our water?

    Really, folks…. stop ranting about fringe arguments. Remember, 30 years from now, today’s science will be obsolete. I suspect that 30 or so years from now, folks will be as appalled by our adding fluoride (and chloramine) to our municipal water as we are now by the addition of radium to soft drinks, candy and cosmetics in the early part of the 20th century, when that naturally occurring substance was seen as a medicine that was good for everyone.

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    • I do find the contradictions within organizations to be odd and disconcerting. The EPA supports fluoridation, yet all of their scientists and attorneys have come out strongly opposed to fluoridation. The CDC and the ADA both strongly support fluoridation, and in the same breath say that is isn’t good for infants and young children. The most concerning thing of all is that, when you ask fluoridation supporters to site a good quality scientific study which supports their claims of safety and effectiveness, the silence is deafening. Their claims, are not science based, so what are they based upon?

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  • Good grief Michael where do you get this gish gallop? There isn’t any debate at the CDC or the ADA or really any place except the websites you find this stuff. Do your read Mike Adams of Natural News every day? He is a lunatic who is calling for the killing of scientists! Not good company. Read the rest of the websites you get this junk from. Pure crazy. Anti-vaccine, anti-climate change, anti-evolution, filled with chemtrails and 9/11 conspiracy.

    And there are thousands of studies on fluoride. Science. It works. But they have tailed off because scientists do not spend time on things that are on solid ground. But you asked for a five year double blind study of fluoride and James Dowd within an hour found you a peer reviewed paper (which also includes inside it reference to six more five year double blind peer reviewed studies) and won your prize of granite. When are you going to stop ignoring actual facts, actual science and deliver the prize to Mr Dowd?

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  • Sigh – yes, there are websites on this topic that seem to be over the top, but let’s not attack anyone with this mindset as being “less than” and assume his/her research is faulty.

    Here are a few more authoritative and conservative items, like the National Institute of Health, CDC, etc.:

    The research indicates that there may be connections between kidney and liver issues and fluoridation, however “more research is needed.” http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16834990

    Ditto on heart disease. From the library of the National Institute of Health, an increase in fluoride uptake is associated with heart disease. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21946616

    On Thyroid issues: http://thyroid.about.com/od/thyroidbasicsthyroid101/ss/preventthyroid_7.htm

    Summary by Dentist from BMN & Marion Institute: http://www.marioninstitute.org/biological-medicine-network/resources/articles/fluoride-controversy-whats-truth

    Excerpt from CDC 2001 Report: http://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm
    “The laboratory and epidemiologic research that has led to the better understanding of how fluoride prevents dental caries indicates that fluoride’s predominant effect is posteruptive and topical and that the effect depends on fluoride being in the right amount in the right place at the right time. Fluoride works primarily after teeth have erupted, especially when small amounts are maintained constantly in the mouth, specifically in dental plaque and saliva (37). Thus, adults also benefit from fluoride, rather than only children, as was previously assumed.”

    However, my perspective in this is that we KNOW that some folks are hypersensitive. They not only develop dry mouth and bleeding gums when they use fluoride dental products (which in turn can lead to loss of teeth), they can develop or worsen rashes such as eczema and experience kidney and bladder inflammation associated with fluoride exposure.

    So, since we know that since 2007 the ADA and CDC now warn parents of infants and children to NOT use fluoridated water or fluoride supplements (a reversal) because of dosage concerns, hypersensitive individuals also have problems with water fluoridation even to wash as well as having it negatively impact their dental and biological health, and the dental benefits can be achieved by using universally available fluoridated toothpastes and rinses….. then we should NOT be fluoridating our water supply.

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  • oh… and BTW: I support childhood vaccinations, believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, and believe man walked on the moon. I do NOT believe there are alien bodies in Area 51 nor do I believe that there is a Chemtrail conspiracy.

    …. I hate it when folks assume that I am against fluoride that I must be crazy. Being one of those folks who is allergic to nuts and has chemical sensitivities is hard, but it doesn’t make me any crazier than someone who sneezes when around roses, or gets a fever and throws up when suffering from the flu. Our bodies simply are what they are, and having these conditions, just is.

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  • “And there are thousands of studies on fluoride” ~ Paul Morrison

    We should be careful to adhere to the subject of the discussion, my friend. We are discussing ingested fluoride (and specifically drinking water fluoridation), which has systemic health effects. There are numerous studies on the topical application of fluoride which attest to its efficacy in reducing cavities. There are, however, no good quality or completed studies which conclude that drinking water fluoridation is either safe or effective. Fluoride supporters are often confused about the fundamental difference between the two, so your confusion is regrettable but understandable.

    Mr. Dowd has received a response on the study which he graciously offered, and he is at liberty to make the response public. I will not do so, however, without his consent.

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    • Just busting your chops Michael. I guess his peer reviewed five year double blind study didn’t make the grade nor the other five peer reviewed double blind studies contained in the paper showing efficacy and safety of fluoride usage. Because five years was not enough to show how safe and effective the fluoride was. Must now be six or ten years. Just move the bar to fifty years. :-)

      “There are, however, no good quality or completed studies which conclude that drinking water fluoridation is either safe or effective.” except for the one James found in an hour as well as thousands of others. I am not confused. I read the paper. But there is one Choi paper from Harvard school of Health. One paper using data collected in China where there was no controlling for anything. No randomized collection of data, no double blind. Just data collected from villages where open fires and about fifty other detrimental things which could have caused lower IQ. Villages where fluoride is naturally in the environment at rates off the charts compared to US municipal treatment. No, that is the paper you are latched onto, not the five year double blind studies showing both safety and efficacy that you said you were searching high and low for, offering a reward if found since you could not find them. I’m not the confused one.

      Just busting your chops. You should stick to being anti-vaccine.

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    • Text is much easier than video. One can check citations, make notes much easier. But this video resides on Connet’s Action Network website. You should try to find a website that has better credentials than that. If you google “crank or quack and connett” you get many more hits than is healthy for a website that one is trusting with your health.

      Try a blog with lots of links out to real science that tears Connett a new one. Jump down past the Dr Strangelove video and dissect how wrong Connett is, how his scientific backers are chiropractors and natural health gurus, not real scientists.

      http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2010/12/02/anti-fluoridation-crankery-how-1960s/

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  • Yes, Connett certainly does as much harm as good for the fluoride opposition; perhaps more. However, the interview is not Connett talking, it’s a global supporter of fluoride who changed his mind, and he tells his story beautifully. No drama, lots of data. The subject, Dr. John Colquhoun was the Chief Dental Officer of the largest city in NZ. He talks about the data manipulation. He is very credible and very authentic. Watch that video.

    Also, for more neutral material with legitimate links to NIH and other reputable sites: http://slweb.org/bibliography.html

    BTW: The link you provided, I’ve read before. It’s very emotional as you suggest, and uses the ad hominem tactic…. belittle with bits from that silly Dr. Strangelove movie. Believe me, I refused to believe fluoride was the source of my problems for years. Stupid of me. That the proponents of fluoride continue to use ridicule and “trust power” as their platform is manipulative.

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  • P.S. Here is a copy of the official affidavit from Dr Colquhoun filed in the state of Wisconsin. It contains most of what he says on video

    http://fluorideinformationaustralia.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/affidavit-of-dr-john-colquhoun.pdf

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  • Gosh…. I found the whole set of affadavits. Didn’t read them all, they were making me sick. You wanted scientific paper substantiating the fluoride opposition…..

    http://firewaterfilm.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/affidavits-safe-water-assn_plaintiff-vs-fond-du-lac_defendant.pdf

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