How much do you tip on a $14.89 pizza delivery

I ordered a lg pepperoni and onion from a pizza joint a mile and a half away from my moms condo in Naples. Tipped $2.11 and git attitude from the deluvery person.

Was that not enough? How much would you tip on that order?

76 thoughts on “How much do you tip on a $14.89 pizza delivery

  1. If I was you neighbor, knocked on your door and asked you, for $2.00, to leave the comforts of your own house, drive 3-4 miles to pick up pizza, would it be worth it to you?

    Like

    1. Yes it would. If you read what I wrote I tipped $2.11 but the delivery person didn’t seem happy with that and it was a mike and a half.

      Naybe I’m living un the past. What do folks usualkt tip on a single pizza delivery these days

      Liked by 1 person

      1. oops…I was off by 11 cents. also, mile and a half each way is 3 miles total. as far as the attitude, you should have asked for the $2.11 back, no need of that.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. I think you tipped fairtly escpecially since it was so close. This is coming from a delivery person. I would be pissed if I drove like 5-8 miles and only got a 2 though.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. “to leave the comforts of your own house”

      Oh I’m sorry you had to leave the comfort of your own home TO GET TO A JOB. Pisses me off to no end that service industry people think they’re doing everyone a huge favor. We all have jobs where we have to leave our comfortable beds to make a living. Pizza delivery guy isn’t just some guy who was asked to leave his house to deliver food, he’s ON THE JOB.

      Like

      1. I agree – the delivery person wasn’t getting up to make one trip to deliver one pizza. He got paid an hourly wage as well and definitely packed his car with insulated bags filled with food for several houses (that’s why they tell you on the phone it could be 45 min to an hour to deliver – because they are putting everyone’s delivery together for one trip). Joey C was for sure just 1 house out of 5 or 6 deliveries. Maybe $3.00 would have been better but $2.11 wasn’t bad and if the delivery person was nice about it, Joey C would have another opportunity to give a little extra next time – it all works out in the end, if your’e nice. Unfortunately, the delivery person’s attitude most likely ruined future deliveries for him since Joey C might rather just go pick up the pizza himself because I doubt he asked for the rude attitude topping.

        Like

        1. Umm no they dont just shove every delivery into one car. I worked at a pizza franchise that had 10-15 drivers on during dinner time on busy weekends. We almost NEVER took more than two deliveries at once. Even with 15 drivers assume nights it was still an hour wait because there are many factors. the kitchen is usually staffed by 5 to 7 cooks… the ovens take 8 min to cook a pizza. There are times where we had 50 orders in an hour. There is not enough room in the football field sized parking lot for enough cars to have enough delivery drivers to deliver everything under 30 min…. there isn’t enough space in the kitchen to keep up with the sauce and cheese consuming beasts.
          The guy who delivered to above user who was rude is an asshole and a $2 tip is pretty low for a $15 order but doesn’t excuse his rudeness.
          But nothing bothered me more than people who don’t tip because it was “late” or took too long. At a restaurant do you not tip because you had to wait 20 min extra for a table? So why stiff a driver because they are really busy.it’s first vine first serve just like a restaurant. Restaurants don’t even give you an estimated time once you sit down and order your food… if a delivery estimate says 30 minutes or so don’t call asking where it is 32 min later it’s an estimate and 99 percent of employees are doing everything as fast as they can. If it’s 15 min “late” it’s still just an estimate and more than likely not the drivers fault just like it’s not a waiters fault you had to wait 15 min extra for a table at a restaurant.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. 2.11 is a terrible tip. The minimum acceptable tip is 3.00 per stop. Anything less than that is being a cheapskate and taking advantage of the driver. With the price of gas and the amount of wear and tear a drivers car sustains it is so frustrating when cheap ignorant people stiff you. If you can’t afford to give 3 or 4 dollars for a tip then you can’t afford 15.00 to spend on a pizza. Get a life!!!!!!

          Liked by 1 person

        1. If you tip 20% to a server why would you tip a delivery driver the same when all they did was sit in their car and carry your food to the door? There is normally a delivery fee anyway….2.80 would be 20% on 14$ so I guess im not seeing the logic behind how this is a horrible tip?

          Like

        2. I recently took a job of being a food delivery driver. It is very true that mikeage is important. We should always think that a trip is never one way but a return trip. From the resraurant to the place of delivery and back. Most restaurants including the one I work do not pay the food delivery driver the minimum wage per hour. If your delivery guy comes in a regular vehicle with no restaurant name and nothing. Most probably, the delivery guy like in my case use his/her own vehicle and gas. Now the question of how much to tip the least should not be based on the order but on the mileage. If you would have taken a public transportation to go and ferch your food yourself, how much would it cost. Let’s say $1.50 for a one way trip, then the tip should be $3.00 minimum. Whatever you give extra above this is appreciation for the service rendered wheher it was super fast or food hot or whatever you’ve appreciated. Also, remember that the delivery guy is doing this job where he is getting less than the minimum wage because he could not find a better job or is doing a second job to meet up the ends. This is my take on it. Thank you for reading.

          Like

      2. some of us live off of tips. and say i work a monday night, i make 4.25ph plus tips business is slow and that 1 delivery only tipped 2.00 i made 6.25 and hour thats not even minimum wage, and while in store i help out cleaning, prepping food, dishes, mopping, answering calls working just as hard trying to earn a living just like everyone else.

        Like

        1. Well, who gets the delivery fee then? I was just charged $3.00 plus tax for delivery fee then the tip on top of that. I had a $15 pizza. I only live a couple of miles away.

          Liked by 1 person

        2. The company gets the fee to cover the cost of insurance and other delivery-related things. Less than half of it ends up going to the driver for the cost of wear and tear on their personal vehicle, the rest gets sucked up by the company and their insurer.

          Like

      1. Using his own gas and maintenance on his car. The company only reimburses a fraction of what that driver is paying out of his pocket. But the driver has NO RIGHT to be mad because he did not get his “tip” (I have been a pt driver as a 2nd job for 6 years i know)

        Like

    3. If i was getting a certain amount on top of the tip like i am sure delivery drivers do and it was MY JOB to deliver it….come on lets not forget all this stuff….then hell yeah id drive 2 miles for 2 bucks. If i am sitting at home watching tv after working ours and the neighbor randomely comes to my door asking me to get it for 2 bucks? Probably not.

      Like

    4. Depends, is it your JOB. Is that listed in your JOB DESCRIPTION. Is that why your Hiring Manager asked if YOU had a VEHICLE to do your JOB, which was DELIVERING FOOD?

      Like

  2. Single pizza, If there’s already a delivery fee, never more than $2, if there is no delivery fee, than perhaps $4, but since they charge delivery fees, I prefer to pick up rather than deliver these days. If more than a single pizza, it’s variable on my mood, and what i have for change.

    Like

    1. Delivery fees at all large chains are never all for the driver. I worked at a store where often more than half of my delivery fees a night went to the store. I knew people who worked at a pizza hut who got zero percent if the $2.50 the store charged. Most drivers drive their own cars so what they do receive for the fee is to cover their business expense it is not a to and not considered income. I worked at 5 different stores and none of them paid the recommended amount per mile by the IRS.
      Never ever consider the delivery fee into calculating your tip.

      Like

    2. The delivery fee goes to the store, not the driver. The driver may get a small portion of this ($1)….quit being a cheap bitch and tip the driver who is putting wear and tear on the car and risking his life everytime he gets behind the wheel because your lazy. Rue of thumb is no matter the order, $3 ok….anything less than that and the drivers will put your delivery on the bottom of their list

      Like

  3. That’s a tough one, but given the cost of gas (they normally drive their own cars) and that they seldom get a cut of the purchase price 20% seems like a good starting point. But at no point should you be given attitude. I used park cars at the Tavern in the mid-60’s. Getting a quarter was a big tip.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. In some countries, tipping is a bit different then here. Either way, I always, always, always tip at least 20%: deliver, take-out, eat in, whatever. Now, the exception is: shitty attitude (before tipping), major screw ups on orders (that the sever screws up, not the kitchen), never returning for re-fills, or to check in, or flat out bad food comes to the table and they won’t take it off the bill even after you point it out, kindly of course.
    I’ve always found, when you take very good care of folks, even beyond 20% (remember, they work for shit, and what’s another buck or two) you become a different customer in their eyes. As a result, they remember your name, what you like, make sure it’s fast, and they may even step up you dish, your seating, and your experience. You go the extra mile, and I will too.
    I think back in the “day” folks would tip BEFORE the service: you know To Ensure Prompt Service: T.I.P.

    Like

    1. I completely agree. Thats always been my approach a t restaurants but I never adjusted my home delivery tipping til niw. I’m gonna up my tipping game for home drluvery th hanks to the input from our great GMG community here for opening my eyes.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Wait a minute…Your getting a $15 dolla pizza delivered to your crib, IN ITALY??? $15 bucks??? Delivered….In IIIIITAAAALLLYYYY!!! Joey, Joey, Joey…$3.50 would have been good. But, maybe a GMG sticker for their Vespa would have been an even kinder and courteous gesture! Remember, your reppin Glousta, not the Jersey Shore!!!

    Liked by 1 person

    1. For restaueant service its rare that I don’t lwave 20 plus % but may need to re think my pizza tipping. Tough to wrap my mind around a $17 pizza but that must be me getting old is all.

      Like

  6. wouldn’t a broke the bank if’n ye’d coffed up ‘n extra buck ‘n brang the tip up’ta 20 % ya cheapskate! Ye never said how were the pizza? Not as good as them pies from glous’ta!

    Like

  7. I guess the question is was the pizza seventeen dollars in American money or in euros? How did you pay? If in American dollars that probably was not enough if the price was in euros. However the tipping in Italy is not the same as here. Over there 10 percent tip is considered generous at restaurants, as they pay their help more than we do here. So I guess this question is a little tricky. Just hope you are having fun in Napoli as it is the best place for pizza in Italy!

    Like

  8. Getting one tonite, they have to travel 7 blocks the pizza is 16.99 I’m tipping 5.00. More than 25 percent it’s worth it

    Like

    1. Actually works out to a tip of 29.43%but who’s figuring.. That’s to much. A 20% or $3.40 would be appropriate round up to $3.50. He didn’t deliver as a special service to you. $5.00 happens when you don’t have anything but a $5.00 and shame yourself into not asking for change… I have office hours for tip therapy..

      Like

  9. Wouldn’t it be nice if I could charge a travel fee for showing up to work each day (I pay $250/mo in gas+ wear and tear)? Or maybe everyone I assist can tip me an additional 20% on top of my check for doing MY JOB! I live in CA where servers make at least $8.00 and food is expensive. I think its ridiculous how restaurants have put an expectation that it’s a customer’s job to ensure the servers are making a decent living by tipping, in addition to paying for already overpriced food and additional charges such as delivery. Then, if we don’t tip to industry standards we get criticized and endure the threat of the quality of food or service being bad. It’s ridiculous. What’s next, should we tip store cashiers for ringing up purchases or else they can make us wait longer? Should we tip bankers for storing our money correctly? The point is, everything we do in A JOB is for the service of others. An expectation that consumers are responsible to pay employees additional is a bit absurd. I’m not saying I don’t tip, I do b/c it’s the expectation, but I do think it was brilliant on the industries part to trick their customers into paying their bills.

    Like

  10. I CANTTTT BREATHHHH LMAOOO. 11 cents? I would give the poor guy Atleast 4$ You guys are cheep asses man. If it was me I would have thrown the 11 cents on your face and took the pizza back.

    Like

  11. Wtffffff. At least tip the guy 5$ You guys are cheap asses. You should thank god he only gave you attitude if it was me I would thrown the 11 cents on your face and took the pizza back.

    Like

  12. So, I think the $2.11 tip was fine on the $14.00 pizza. That’s almost 15% and I don’t know if people are assuming that the delivery guy or gal is like the server, but he/she is not. The delivery people I know got paid at least minimum wage, whereby as a server, we would get paid I believe $2.00 less than the minimum wage. So the pizza deliverer starts with a greater base hourly wage – the delivery person DOES NOT live off tips the way servers do.

    He did not get paid $2.11 to get up off the couch and drive 4 miles to deliver the pizza because 1) he got paid by the pizza business for the time spent in the car and might have gotten paid for gas as well, depending on the establishment, 2) most pizza delivery places limit delivery to 1-2 mile radius (that’s roughly 4-5 minute drive each way IF the deliverer was ONLY delivering to one house) and 3) in all likelihood, the pizza person was delivering to more than one house. Most pizza places make pizzas and keep them warm in the box on top of the pizza stove and when they have several orders, they put them in insulated bags and deliver SEVERAL orders in one trip.

    Finally, all the pizza deliverers I know bring in about $100 in tips (I live in a city/town of about 50,000 people), plus they make the hourly minimum wage. As a waitress, I made $100 per night but made a lower hourly wage. Then again, maybe the delivery person pays for gas or maybe the boss pays some gas with prices being so high now.

    The point is, if you do the math, the pizza person probably drove 2 miles each way and served an average of 3-4 houses, so 4 miles and 4 houses = 1 mile per house and if gas is $4.00/gallon at most and the car goes 25 gallons average, its costing the delivery person 16 cents per delivery. Assuming for sake of low-balling that it took the person 1 hour to do all the deliveries (he was slow) and each person’s order was measly $15.00 with a $2.11 tip. 4 houses x 2.11 = 8.44 for a really slow and cheap hour of orders. If his/her wage is $7.25/hour (minimum wage), then the worst orders’ tip of $2.11 brings his wage up to $15.69/hour minus the .64 in gas, so roughly $15.00 an hour MINIMUM.

    There was no reason for the guy to sulk at the tip. It was decent. Maybe he was just a grouchy guy or mad about something else.

    Like

    1. I am a pizza delivery guy in California and I get paid 3 dollars per pizza delivered plus whatever the tip was and there isn’t any compensation for gas. I’m not sure exactly how its legal that they don’t pay minimum wage on top of that, but it has something to do with being considered a contractor instead of an employee of the company. There are quite a few pizza places in the area I know that do this practice to save money. Most of the time only one house is delivered in a trip and its usually farther than 2 miles. There have been slow days when the tipping was really bad, and after paying for gas I’ve made far less than minimum wage which really sucks. I live off tips the same way servers do in other states that have less labor laws than California. I would say that as a minimum, $3 is kinda decent and $5 is a good average for most orders.

      Like

      1. If You’re a contractor they do not have to pay a wage just a flat per run fee. But you do not work for them so all you do is drive.

        Like

  13. Don’t get minimum wage here. $6 an hr. minimum wage is 7.25. For every delivery you get a $1. Which is supposed to be your mileage reimbursement. Also on a slow day you get maybe make 12-30 a day. That’s working 5-6 hrs w 7-12 deliveries. That’s in Philadelphia center city area. I have to pay the parking meter. Generally tip should be $3 per delivery.

    Minimum wage at 7.25 ft will get you $435. I get $288 guaranteed bi-weekly. I still have to scrounge up $147. Just to get minimum wage. Fat chance of doing that if I’m getting $12 a day. Oh and if it’s slow you get booted out so you can’t even collect a full 8 hr day. Don’t complain about how maybe you should get paid to show up for work. Wear and tear on your car for driving to work. You get a fair wage you get to show up for work park your car and leave at the end of the day. My old job was a 15 min ride away. I didn’t have to pay gas till a week and a half. I’m filling up my gas every 4 days now.

    Now on a good day you can earn 100 if you manage to make 25 deliveries and they all happen to tip $3.

    Like

  14. Just think how you would feel if you were that person that is what drivers live of… i usually give 5 bucks at least but 3 is decent atleast i give 5 thats just me though

    Like

  15. Wow, a lot of really cheap people here. Sad and pathetic. 3 Dollars minimum on any order. 4-5 should be standard. If you can’t afford a proper tip don’t order delivery you morons.

    Like

  16. Consider it costs on average 60.8 cents per mile to own and operate a vehicle. Also consider that a delivery driver has to make the round trip. So multiply the distance between your house and the restaurant by 2. Then multiply that by 60.8 cents and you get a figure that tells you how much the driver is spending out of his/her pocket just to drive to your house. If you live 2.5 miles from the pizza place it cost the driver $3.04 for the round trip. If you tip the driver $2, the driver would then be losing money. Stop being cheap. Also understand that just because the driver appears almost magically at your doorstep there is a lot of work they need to do before magically appearing there.

    Like

  17. This is beyond ridiculous, the tipping scheme here in the US. Yes I am here performing an audit, but come on Ive lived all around the world and its ridiculous how prices are here: x + tax + tip!!! Anywhere in the world the price you pay is the price in the menu, tipps are for rounding the bill nothing else. 58,30 euro family meal, give 60 euros, thats a 3% tip and nobody will complain if you ask for the change. And you know what? Waiters and taxi drivers live much better in europe than in the US. So the problem is the Industry not the people that you say are cheap for not tipping.
    Instead of complaining about bad tipsters, complain about ur only profit driven government that does not create laws for the employeer to provide you with a decent salary!
    Also I am reading now that you are expected to tip for cleaning my room at the hotel every day? I am here working, my company pays 250$ a night to the hotel and I am suppose to give 5$ from my own money for a service that is included in the hotel price? You gotta be kidding me, its a really fckd up society the US

    Like

  18. When tipped minimum wage is $2.13/hr in the US and gas is $4.69 a gallon, and the AAA/ IRS of using your car is 55 cents per mile. Yes it is rude to ever tip under $5. Drivers can drive 100+ miles a shift which is an expense of $55 right there. (Less than their wage) many places don’t reimburse at all for gas, mileage, and wear and tear. Plus drivers get taxed on tips which is usually estimated at at least 10-15% of their sales. Unless you are tipped well, a driver ends up with making less than minimum wage, thousands in car repairs, brakes every month or 2, tires twice a year. Yes “tipping culture” in the US sucks, but that is the way it is. Employers get away with not having to pay their employees a livable wage, and providing a service at no cost to them, and at a huge cost to their drivers.

    Like

  19. Step one: drive to the pizza store and the drive back home ask your self if it took long to get to my address! Add in the rush hour time estimate

    Step two: Go to a bar/dinner In a restaurant and see how much you tip you waitress notice how they did not drive there car to your table and you probably tipped more!

    Step 3: Know the facts
    Most pizza stores give there driver .50 cents up to .85 cents just to take the delivery and $5-$6 an hour just like your waiter/waitress

    Step 4: what is the price of gas today
    If you live 15min from the pizza store in traffic then that delivery guy has been gone from the store for half an hour when he gets back! That means for 30min he missed out on any other deliveries

    Step 5: there are people that don’t tip!
    There are two type of no tippers
    The ones that just think they are better then the delivery guy/girl and the ones that just don’t have money to tip!
    Either way you are in the wrong Morally!

    Step 6: that delivery charge DOES not go to the driver part of it is for the call centre that took your order and most the rest goes to the restaurant for the drivers hourly rate and then .50 to .85cents the driver gets!

    Step 7: you might think they don’t remember you but they do! It might have been 100days since you ordered last but every store copy that comes from head office has your address and how many orders you have had and blah blah blah and we remember the guys that stiff us!

    Step 8: we don’t want all your money
    But fact is we are working to make money and any job that you get tips from is always underpaid
    -we do food prep
    -wash dishes
    -clean the store
    -listen to customers complain even tho it’s the pizza makers who made a mistake or took to long to make the order
    -and pay for our own gas
    Yeh we pay for our own gas!
    – rain, snow, heat wave notice how we are still there for you

    Step 9: the last driver messed up so your making me suffer! All drivers are not created equal!
    I dress to impress and clean shaven every day!
    I carry extra napkins and dipping sauce that I paid for my self with plate and Curley
    I always ask if you would like your change because I do not assume that because a order was 37.69 and you handed me 40.00 that you want me to have the scrap change
    I turn on my debit machine when I get onto your street so we don’t have to wait at the door just in case you want to use it !

    Step 10: we know where you live eggs are cheap and we have kids! Ok the last one was a joke but we do have the power to blacklist you and it does happen but that is for other reasons not because you did not tip!

    Like

  20. Delivery service deserves better tip.Some house’s address not clearly visable (one of my pet peeves). 2buck tip at the register if u pick up. I kinda admire deliveryman’s nerve to complain about the tip.

    Like

  21. How ironic…. I just came to check how much I should tip. Usually tip $2 for a $15 pizza, but tonight I’m getting a “free” pizza from Papa Johns which comes out to $4.16, so checked Google. For the first time EVER, the pizza delivery guy just called and said he was getting ready to leave the store and wondered if I needed any extra parmesan, banana peppers or garlic sauce! Now that’s good service! I’m going to tip him $4.25 on a $4.61 order. Sure… it’s not $5, but it is almost a 100% tip on my order. 😀 In the future, I’ll do at least 3 or 4 and stop being a cheap ass.

    Like

  22. I’ll just give the delivery guy a slice of pizza and a dip on the garlic sauce for a tip with the extra parmesan cheese… #gratata

    Like

  23. You should have gave him five, thats the magic number for small delivery, you might even get better service the next time, you should respect the delivery man or woman who’s giving you a convenient way of having a lunch or dinner.

    Like

  24. Tip credit, I’ve delivered pizza for more then 10 years. A few years ago my company switched to tip credit. Our new drivers get $5.05 per hour while on your delivery and about .31 cents per mile. Stores with small areas may only give there driver .85 cents per delivery, big areas maybe $1.60 per to drive 6 miles. $2.11 is a good tip but is also below average. The average tip when the good, bad and stiffs are taken into account is $3.25-3.50. My last area for example I had deliveries that were 16 miles round trip, If you get stiffed on one of those you lose money. When gas was $3.50, $2.11 would have almost but not quite paid for my gas on that one. It is wrong of a driver to cop an attitude regardless of how much is tipped. I would suggest always tipping at least $3.00 at least a dollar of that goes to car expense. Tips are greatly appreciated!

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Ok, I’m a pizza delivery guy right now, trying to support a wife and 2 kids – Lost my career job and doing this until i get a better job. Here is the honest feel when you get each size of tip for any order under $30 (over $40 should be a little more and huge orders are expected to be a bigger tip, but $10 on a $100-$150 order is still cool)

    $0 – you either don’t realize you need to tip or you are telling me that I only deserve $4.50 per/hour right now.(I walk away thinking i’m a loser who can’t support my family)

    $1- you probably just didn’t want the change or you are poor and probably shouldn’t be ordering pizza delivered (feels the same as no tip)

    $2- You know should tip, but you don’t really care about me or you are really watching your pennies ( its better than nothing, i hope my next tip is bigger to make up for it – but)

    $3- You want to say thank you so you tip a typical amount (I think ok, on to the next one, this is ok if i get enough deliveries tonight. – no shame in $3)

    $4- You care! (I walk away pretty happy)

    $5 – You are legit! (i actually get $5 about half the time – I think to myself – keep these good tips coming)

    $6 or $7 – I will walk away doing a fist pump and think “this job isn’t that bad”

    $8 and up – You are my hero – I’m probably going to mention it to my wife or the guys back at the restaurant.

    In the end – i would never be rude even with no tip, but if you see my face as a walk away, you might see disappointment and even tears as I drive away wondering to myself how I got my family in this situation. Thank you Jesus for loving me even with all my faults.

    Like

  26. I am a career pizza delivery driver. If I delivered your order I would not be disappointed with a 2.11 tip. It is below a below average tip, however you didn’t owe me anything. I got paid a wage, plus a dollar in gas reimbursement.

    Like

    1. 2.11 is not a insult, it is well below average. In Az a newly hired driver makes $5.05 per hour and .27 cents per mile to deliver your pizza, It costs way more then .27 cent per mile to drive a car and the .27 cent is variable it will go down. average tip is almost $4 and that isn’t enough to stop the revolving door of drivers. The wear and tear on A Pizza Delivery car is SUBSTANTIAL!.

      Like

  27. I actually checked a website for pizza delivery guys and it says at least 15% of the total bill (excluding delivery fee) and no less than $3 under any circumstances is a perfectly acceptable tip. So to answer your question, you probably should have left $3.

    Like

  28. Well this is an old post.But my opinion may be the pizza delivery guy should go to college and get a better job then he wouldn’t be so mad about a $2 tip. that’s his fault he delivers pizza not the guy who can actually afford to pay for it.

    Like

    1. How do you know the delivery guy didn’t go to college? Maybe he is trying to supplement his income with a part time job. And I think most pizza delivery guys can afford to pay for a pizza.

      Like

  29. As a delivery driver myself, I would suggest between $3 and $5 for an order like that. $2.11 is a little low, but not enough to be get pissy over and drivers should never give a customer attitude despite how repulsive customers treat them, that’ll get your ass fired quick! Me personally, no order should be less than $3 and the size of a tip should increase with the size of the order. A $5 is usually nice, but not for a $200 order, then it’s terrible.

    Like

Leaving a comment rewards the author of this post- add to the discussion here-